Everything You NEED to Know to Make 7 Figures in Commercial Real Estate

Aviva (00:00)
This week's listener of the week is Luke Baring. Luke, thank you so much for leaving us a five star review. And for those of you listening, if you leave us a five star review below, you might be next week's listener of the week, week, week. This week on Commercial Real Estate Secrets, have Rod Santomassimo. Rod Santomassimo is the founder of the Massimo Group.

a bestselling author, and he is very well known for helping brokers, including myself, 10X their income and brand. Rod, thank you for being on the show today.

Rod Santomassimo (00:40)
Aviva, it's great being here.

Aviva (00:42)
Rod, why don't you tell the audience a bit about yourself, who you are and how you got to be the top commercial real estate coach of all time.

Rod Santomassimo (00:52)
You know, I am a serial entrepreneur. I fail on something. I try something else. I fail again. I try something else. And then 2008, we had a little blip in the market. I found myself failed again. And I said, what can I do knowing what I knew then? I've done so many things. I've run public telecom firms. I've taken from public.

I was a CFO for a law firm, a malpractice law firm. I'm a patent inventor and a sports watch. So you can see, I chase the little shiny things all the time. But in 2008, one thing I always have been doing is involved in real estate in one way or another. And I said, look, I know people are going to be hurting. So maybe I could start building a coaching company, just me, myself, coach a couple of people, see how it goes kind of thing. Of course, when no one had money and there was no deals being done, I started

which is the best time to start, by the way, when the market's dead, I started this coaching company that we call Massimo Group. And that's a little about me.

Aviva (01:57)
I have a very profound, the first time I ever met you, you kind of pulled me aside and you said, Aviva, are you a seven figure broker? And I said, no. And you said, you need to be a seven figure broker. And that was the first time I realized that that was even possible. So we've been working together for like a year and a half now. I have been a member of the Massimo group, learning.

how to become an authority in commercial real estate and just working to be among the greats of your coaching clients like Bob Knakal. And I'm very excited to talk about you and Bob have a book coming out called Selling Buildings. Tell me about it.

Rod Santomassimo (02:39)
Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's my fifth book and five my favorite number. So it's appropriate to do it with Bob. I've known Bob. He was actually highlighted in my first book in 2009, that thing, no, 2012 that thing came out first book ever called Brokers Who Dominate. And I just call this guy up and said, hey, you want to be in my book? It was kind of that stupid thing, right?

Everyone said, need to know Bob Knakal. I had no idea who Bob was. This is before Bob was a big hit on social media. And he just happened to say, hey, Rod, what do you do? And I said, he goes, how many books have you written? I'm like, this is my first one. It was embarrassing. It's my first book, Bob. I coach brokers. He said, what the hell is that? I said, we help brokers significantly increase their income, but in less time. And then he called me up like a week later and said, tell me more about this coach thing. So I go.

Aviva (03:21)
you

Rod Santomassimo (03:34)
⁓ story, Bob was making $6 million at that time. Amazing. And he said, come up to New York and watch what I do and see if you can help. And Aviva, we were brand new. We were, we were four years in. We were, and it was still me and maybe, maybe we had a couple of coaches. Now we have 35. and I told my wife, how the hell can I help this guy? He makes $6 million. There's no way I can help this guy. That's again, limiting belief. That's what I told myself. So I went up and I watched him and I said, ⁓ cheese and crackers.

he's leaving money on the table. It was so many things, little things you could just hone in on and into dials. And then by the fourth year, he was now up to, or almost the third year, he was up to $18 million. So it was working. And so I've now met with Bob every week for 13 years. And Bob is now my only, he's the only one-on-one client I coach and you get coached by the amazing Tammy and you join up my group calls.

So then Bob always said, no, I need to write a book. We've always said you need to write a book, And, but he didn't, again, like me, like everyone, if you don't know, if you've ever done it, you don't know how. So I said, Bob, tell you what, why we do it together? And we put an investor spin on it and a broker spin on it. And let's talk about the art of selling buildings, not diving into due diligence and listing, security listings. It's not a, it's not a, it's not a how to.

sell a building. Anyone can figure that one out. Google it. This is about the story and the art of selling buildings. That's what it's about. it was great. So we took Bob from his beginnings, his humble beginnings, when he had five shirts and two suits. And now we're here today. He sold more buildings than anyone in the history of New York City, which is incredible. But he tells a story and the journey of his career while threading in, look, these are key in every chapter. Here's a deal story.

Aviva (05:13)
Thank

Rod Santomassimo (05:28)
Here are key investor takeaways. If you're an investor, you got to do this, this, and this. And I come in and say, but hold on, if you're a broker, you need to this, this, and this. So it's a broker investor workbook, playbook to how to maximize your profits for brokers, obviously, but how to maximize your prices for investors. yeah, it's a story, but it's a true story with lessons.

Aviva (05:55)
I'm so obsessed with giving out information about our industry because of how gate kept it has been until the internet gave us the ability to talk to each other and share. So I'm excited to read it. When does the book come out?

Rod Santomassimo (06:11)
Well, we're gonna have a book launch, it's official now, we're having a book launch party in New York on May 20th. Will we sell before then? I don't know, maybe a couple days before then we'll do some selling, but that will be that week, will be the big week. It's after ICSC, after the gala, after all that stuff, then we'll go up to New York and have a big party.

Aviva (06:19)
Okay.

Well, I will tee up getting this podcast out then. So what is the biggest money making mistake brokers are making today?

Rod Santomassimo (06:39)
Okay, that'd be great.

Well, it's not just one. Because like I said, when I went to see Bob, was like cheese and crackers, this, this, this, and this. So it's not just one. But certainly some of the key factors while, and this is not just brokers, any salesperson is true. Number one, there's a lack of focus on doing the one thing, the one thing, this book, again, selling buildings. Bob, let's just sell buildings. Why don't we just focus on that? We're great at that. Let's do that.

Aviva (07:19)
Thank

Rod Santomassimo (07:20)
And Bob chases the shiny objects too, as we know he does, right? So I think you what's your focus. Figure out and say, this is me, my niche. This is me, my specialty. This is where I'm be the expert, the resource, the yes authority. And I'll be known as this person. are, everyone knows you. You're the warehouse goddess. Everyone else, you want to sell warehouse? Go call Aviva. People know that, right? That's you know. You don't sell land and lease retail and.

and maybe do a multifamily listing over here. That's not what you do, right? So that's, that's certainly number one. Number two, and with Bob, it was stop, just stop it. And that, and part of that is start saying no. So here's a, here's a great example. When I first coached Bob, this is a true story. He had a checklist every week of 123 things he would track. 123 things. How many green juices did I drink? It was ridiculous. So

Let's simplify the mechanism if we can, right? And today by we have only, I think, three right now with Bob, but let's simplify everything. So yes, part of the focus and simplification of let's figure this out. What am I going to do? So those are two huge ones. Certainly taking for granted the people you worked with in the past was a big one for Bob as well. And for all brokers, the easy money is the client you have and will always have if you treat them as such versus I did a transaction. Let's go into the next.

That's a terrible perception, it is. And most brokers live in the transaction treadmill, we call it. Do a deal, do a deal, do a deal. What about the relationship? What about the opportunities? What about the next deal with this person, the referrals, the testimonials, the endorsements? So I think that's another huge one that most people forget about.

Aviva (09:06)
especially in the digital age, you talk about referrals, endorsements. You know, I have lived on the transaction treadmill, but it's like you said, once you get off the treadmill and realize you're making, it's more than just a deal, it's friendships, connections, partners. There's a lot of value to be had and a lot of value to give and extract along the way.

Rod Santomassimo (09:31)
Yeah, I'll stand on that one second. So anyone, look, you're a real estate podcast, right? You do. And it's a really good one. So most people just focus on the real estate. They do. And we look at every opportunity, how can I move this deal forward? What's holding it back? What's going on with either a due diligence issue or a leasing issue or a landlord, tenant issue, whatever it might be. What's the real estate factors we got to focus on, which is our business. I get that. But if you just focused on the real life instead of the real estate,

Aviva (09:31)
And... yeah.

Rod Santomassimo (10:00)
then you'll see things will move more smoothly and they move actually, you'll accelerate things moving. If you just take your focus off the freaking deal and focus on the person, it's amazing what can happen.

Aviva (10:02)
Hmph.

I think that's a life lesson, you know? We all wanna get lost in the dollar signs, but it's like, what's behind that? It all goes into, the more you give, the more you get.

And I think that applies so heavily to brokerage, obviously, and to being an authority in your space. A big takeaway that I've learned in coaching is to become an authority as opposed to a commodity. I'm telling you this like I'm not just regurgitating what you've told me. How does a broker become an authority in their space in 2025?

Rod Santomassimo (10:40)
Correct.

Yeah. ⁓ first of all, we talked about already, you gotta be a specialist. You cannot be a journalist. It's impossible to be a journalist and an authority. Now look in a tertiary market, you know, like in Orangeboro, Kentucky, and our great friend, Bo Baron, right? He's the authority of that market. It's a tiny little market. So he's the authority. He does a little bit of everything, but you gotta have a niche and a specialty. You must, and then you must know everything you can about that and to the, to the exact number.

Not, I think we have about, you know, a hundred thousand square feet of metal here, or there's 4.5 million here. No, give me the exact number. Specificity, as we always preach, you know this, is, is creates believability, which creates the authority. It does. How well do you know your numbers? Do you know your numbers? Are you just looking at the latest costar report and throwing something out there that maybe CBRE or someone posted on a report somewhere? No. Authorities know their numbers.

And that's a major separation, it is. And they're specialists.

Aviva (11:53)
I, the way that I talk about this business, our company has just, it's a 360 since I started listening to you, listening to Bob. I'm bullish on coaching and bullish on, honestly just.

properly educating people on the market, right? When the question becomes, how's the market? Right? The answer is not, it's good, it's bad, it's haywire like it is right now. ⁓ It's, this is what's going on, these are our vacancy rates. ⁓ I don't have to tell you, but.

Rod Santomassimo (12:32)
No, but no, you're right. How's the market is an opportunity for anyone to shine. It is. And instead of using an adjective, it's hot, it's cold, it's slow, it's fast. Tell us what the heck is going on. Great question. Great question, Aviva. Here's exactly what's going on. The last five deals are this, recompression is this, absorption is this, sales are this. Tell me, and compare it to two years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, this is what it's telling us in the marketplace. Be the expert. Just be the freaking expert.

And it's really that simple. It really is.

Aviva (13:03)
So if you wanted to make $100,000 in the next 90 days in commercial real estate, what are you doing?

Rod Santomassimo (13:12)
Well, you're looking for someone really desperate that needs to sell immediately if you just give me a 90 day timeframe. That's it. To make a hundred thousand in 90 days, you need to find a desperate seller right now. That's the only strategy behind that. You're not going to lease a space for a hundred thousand dollars, huge warehouse in 90 days. It's not going to happen. It's not, right? Be realistic. So are there desperate sellers right now? Yes, there are. They actually are.

Aviva (13:33)
Yeah.

Rod Santomassimo (13:41)
We talked to a broker the other day and you know, even the tariffs are scaring all his clients, his warehouse clients. You know this, right? They're petrified right now about the tariffs. So what is going on right now? And they put some harder financial straits. They don't have the availability to sustain the recent cycle. That's how you're going do it. But look, real estate, my point is this, real estate is not a quick money game. I don't care what you watch, what you listen to.

Aviva (13:48)
Yeah. ⁓

Mm.

Rod Santomassimo (14:10)
with some freaking guru saying, you're at fast money. That's not commercial real estate. It's not. And in brokerage, it's certainly not. It's not a fast money mechanism.

Aviva (14:22)
Something I'm personally struggling with is in brokerage, the lack of control. Right? Is that?

Rod Santomassimo (14:29)
But expand

on that though. What does that mean for you?

Aviva (14:32)
Sure, so I'm working with a buyer, working with a seller. It's all going well. And then boom, something happens, derails everything. Something completely out of my control. How do brokers cope with the fact that we're at the mercy of our buyers and sellers and the variables that come to our deals?

Rod Santomassimo (14:56)
Well, I'll argue this. I'll coach you through this. First of all, don't believe you should. Do you have an exclusive with your buyers or are you just representing buyers?

Aviva (15:06)
more of the second.

Rod Santomassimo (15:08)
Okay, yeah, that's a lack of control. Anything you don't have an exclusive on is a lack of control. Back to our friend Bob Knakal, he will never work a deal on six exclusive. He just won't. Also, he'll never represent a buyer. He never will. He did once in his lifetime. He talked about that a little bit in the book, but never again. You can elevate your level of control based on the relationships that you accept. So just accept those

individuals that will give you exclusive relationships. That's it. Nothing else. That gives you an elevated level of control. Once you have that, how much of the deal flow and information do you possess versus the owner possess? Do you understand their motivation before you accept that opportunity? Yes or no. Do you truly understand the shareholders, the stakeholders, the issues, the impacts? Every time talk about in our system, do you truly get it? That gives you more control. It does. Eventually though, and inevitably,

someone made a choose not to sell or not to buy or not to lease. That is absolutely true. One of our original clients and someone that's also a great broker, ⁓ Bo Berry. Bo Berry used to tell us, one of his rules was always assume the worst possible thing is going to happen. Just assume it right at the back. And then if this were to happen, what do I need to do to make sure it doesn't happen? Right.

Like you have, you and I have a mutual not relationship. have a much bigger relationship than I do with a, with a person we know as Gary Vaynerchuk, right? And Gary taught us, he did tell us what, what would have to happen for your, you to be put out of business. That's, and that's when I sat down on Monday, it's that's what he said. What would have to happen? I said, well, this, this thing is said, then do that. Right. And that's what you do. You think is the worst case scenario and you take care of it. That gives you more control. It does.

But in real estate as a broker, we're a facilitator. We are. We're not the transactor. We're the facilitator of the transaction. So we don't have total, well, we never have total control, but there's certainly what you can do to elevate that level of control.

Aviva (17:08)
sure.

Aye, aye, aye. That's good. That's good. I, ⁓ I know, trust me, I'm, I'm, holding myself off of diving into personal questions and trying to work towards getting us great snappy bits for social media. So, but no, it's good.

Rod Santomassimo (17:27)
⁓ You

The personal questions create the great snappy bits though, they do.

Aviva (17:38)
You're absolutely right. And, ⁓ and I have no doubt we'll have lots of them. Is cold calling dead?

Rod Santomassimo (17:48)
Great question. I do believe cold calling has been dead for years, frankly. I believe it, right? We don't cold call at Massimo. We don't preach cold calling at Massimo. We create campaigns, target campaigns, immersive campaigns, including warm calls. Absolutely. The FCC just came down really hard on bot calling. So that kind of cold calling for now is dead until they can figure out what to allow AI bots to start cold calling again.

There was a reflex from the public saying, we don't want that. So that will come back though. That will come back. that will, think Aviva, when pure cold calling comes back, it will be bots. Humans should not be cold calling. shouldn't. It should be warm calling with multiple omnipresence campaigns and channels to help create the trust and value to have a better conversation.

Aviva (18:42)
You know, I struggle because I hate when people cold call me, but I do understand the fundamental of what you're saying is that it's not about, hey, are you ready to sell? It's, hey, presenting the figures like we discussed, authority in the market, how can we help you? What are your needs? And navigating accordingly.

Rod Santomassimo (19:10)
Or, yeah, and then he shared this at MossmoCon. We have a client, ⁓ Tal, Tal Friedman. He sold more multifamily buildings than anybody in South Florida. His pitch is simple. Hey, you need to know who I am. And that's it. Why? Because I've sold more multifamily assets in South Florida than anybody. I know you own multifamily assets. And here's what's going on. I am the authority. Now that's authority. Right. And that's not a cold call.

Aviva (19:35)
Hmph.

Thank

Rod Santomassimo (19:39)
So Aviva, you can do that too. You can actually say to your warehouse owners in your market, hey, you need to know who I am. Why? Here's why, right? This is what's going on. Be the authority. And I think that's part of the problem and part of the mindset issue right now, Aviva. If you think you're cold calling and you're not giving value, it's only about you and getting an opportunity to sell or lease, then that's going to be tough calls to make. It is. If however, you know, look, you need to talk to me because these things are happening and you don't know this.

Aviva (20:04)
Yeah.

Rod Santomassimo (20:09)
They probably don't. You assume they do and they probably don't. And then you call and they're like, hell, I didn't know that. You are the authority. So it's how you change your mindset to make those calls. It just is.

Aviva (20:16)
Yeah.

Okay, okay. No, know. Hey, I didn't make a cold call for probably five years until I started coaching, but I actually like talking to people and who would have thought it's what we do.

Rod Santomassimo (20:29)
Yep. ⁓

You're personable,

it's easy. You're an person to talk to.

Aviva (20:38)
Hey, I love it. And it's like you said, it certainly helps when they know who you are before you call. So let me ask you, you have helped people go from zero to seven figures. What is the one mindset shift that separates the top 1 % from the rest?

Rod Santomassimo (21:02)
First, you have to believe that you're capable of a certain level of success. You have to believe it. Here's a great example. My brother works with me at Massimo. He's my head salesperson. When I started out, told him, I actually told him, Aviva, Vince, you'll never make $100,000. You'll never make $100,000 as a salesperson. We're never going grow that big. Then he made $100,000, then he made $200,000, then it was $300,000.

It's just me limiting what is possible, right? So now I know that's take that cap off. Stop that is limiting belief to what is possible. I've seen kids, ⁓ Jared Husmann great guy in Iowa, kid in Iowa. He was only making $35,000 and he shared this publicly. So I'm not, I'm not saying embarrassing. And when I found out he signed up for our coaching, our one-on-one, which is a high end coaching, I actually called him and said, dude, what are you doing? Can you afford this?

Aviva (21:58)
well.

Rod Santomassimo (22:00)
And said, yeah, he begged, borrowed, and steal, and he said, I'm committed to making the most I can. And he exploded. He exploded 20X like that, right? Because he had total commitment to making, and I know I'm giving away ⁓ the CRE secret soon, but he had total commitment to doing everything he could to fulfill that vision of hitting six figures, high six figures, and yeah, eventually seven figures.

Aviva (22:08)
Wow.

Rod Santomassimo (22:28)
So I say, first of all, get your freaking mind out of your way. It is possible. There's a pathway to it. There is.

Aviva (22:37)
Get your mind out of the way and then go get an exclusive.

Rod Santomassimo (22:40)
And then get it. Well, not only that, then

figure out who your target audience is, figure out your value preference for that target audience, create a marketing campaign around that element, start asking for business, creating value, sharing value. And yeah, and realize, and then once you get success, leverage the hell of it, broadcast it to everyone. You go to our website, we have hundreds of testimonials. Why? Because people need to know we're good. I can't tell you we're good because I think we're great, but that won't work.

other people are to sell you, you're good. And so that's, you leverage it. It's a whole process of getting there. It is. You're not getting the seven figures. I know there was one kid when I used to work for another brokerage firm, he came in and he made 750 the first year and everyone was like, how the hell in Oklahoma, how the hell did he do that? We were shocked, right? Turned out he went to his mentor and he started leveraging his mentor's relationships in active client prospecting calls is all he did, right?

Aviva (23:34)
Wow.

Rod Santomassimo (23:38)
that allowed him to get where he needed to go. And now he's a multiple seven-figure producer all along the way.

Aviva (23:46)
You know, it's the pro and the con to this business is the sky is the limit. It can attract the shiny object folks who don't really have the stomach to wait out, right? Like everybody hears the story, oh, we made 750 year one. And it's like, oh, I should do that. And it's like, yeah, sorta. Right, right.

Rod Santomassimo (24:06)
I could do that. No, no. But

it is possible. That's my point. You can't say you can't make, you can make them, but you shouldn't. The norm is no. In the first year, you're not going to break, likely you're not going to break six figures. You're not, right? But the second and third, you better be breaking, or you're not going to make it. just, you're not going to make it.

Aviva (24:27)
Do you know statistics on brokers like who start and exit? you know what that?

Rod Santomassimo (24:34)
Yeah.

A third of all starts generally don't, don't, they're not there by year three. They're actually two, no, two thirds. A third is two thirds of new starts are not there by year three. The average commercial real estate broker in the U S makes on gross level based on the source you think, whether it be NAR, there was one by shopping center group and a little one that they're, they're making about $140,000 a year gross, gross.

It means to bring home 70 to $75,000 average. Think about that. that in some markets I get it, that may be good, but it's just not good overall for a career and a life, living your life to work that hard and to do that. That's not why. Look, you can get a job for much more than that and get a stable income. You can.

Aviva (25:26)
I got a half a commission check during my maternity leave for more than that. And I was just like, I just sat back and I was like, how fortunate to be in this business where I haven't worked on this deal in two years.

Rod Santomassimo (25:32)
Hahaha

Aviva (25:43)
but I just got a check in the mail for more money than a lot of people make in a year. It's unbelievable. That's not to flex. That's just like, am consistently taken back by how opportunistic this industry is. And I'll be honest, Rod, you have exposed me to new heights and expectations that I did not even think were possible prior to coaching, going to MassimoCon and... ⁓

Rod Santomassimo (26:11)
And see, this

is great example. So I knew of you, I didn't know you, right? But I knew of you when I walked up to you because you had a presence and people were talking about you. And so it was like, okay, who is this young lady, right? Who is this with a great name? I had no idea. So again, my first question was, I assumed you must be making a lot of money because of everything I'm hearing in the marketplace, right? And look, you were making a lot of money regardless, but.

where you're making seven figures, you mentioned it yourself, right? We started off and that was the wrong assumption. And that's why I always ask, you know, is it, you, are you leveraging all this brand that you bring with you to actually monetize it, right? And create the wealth and income for your family. And look, and you and I both notice, I don't, there's no, I'm not, I'm not saying any ... about anybody who has a great social presence. Awesome. Leverage it, but great social presence doesn't mean you're making a lot of money.

Aviva (26:46)
you

Rod Santomassimo (27:10)
It just doesn't. There's fame, there's fortune, and they're different. They just are. And you can't, and look, being famous as a commercial real estate broker really is. And we have people much, have many more followers than us on social. You on TikTok, you're incredible. But that's the point. Yes. And that's why we say presence is great, profit's better.

Aviva (27:15)
yeah.

I know. I know. ⁓

Amen. We need that on a mug. I need that on a mug. And I'm sure my husband would agree with you. Rod, what is your C-R-E secret for the listeners today?

Rod Santomassimo (27:48)
Yes.

Yeah, without a doubt, 100 % of my serious secret for me, for every success I've had, or our clients that they have had, is total. I mean total complete conviction in what you're doing. I believe to my core, to my core, I go look right at your face, and I know we have competitors, that the Massimo Group is the greatest commercial real estate broker coaching organization on the planet.

Aviva (28:16)
you

Rod Santomassimo (28:23)
No one comes close. I believe it. And I could debate you all day long and prove it with stats. I believe that. I believe I can help anyone who's committed to growth that has to be committed to it have significantly higher income. I do. I believe it. I bleed it. I bleed Massimo blue. I'm wearing blue today. Right. So do you believe to the core that you are the best warehouse advisor in your market? Do you truly believe that?

Aviva (28:50)
you

Rod Santomassimo (28:52)
Do you live it? Do you breathe it? Do you wake up and think about it? Bob Knakal never thinks for a second about his, he's in the most competitive marketplace on the planet for real estate in New York. He doesn't blink for a second thinking, I'm not going to get this deal. Now does he get every deal? Hell no. But he never thinks he's not going to get it ever. He believes he's going to get it. So you need total conviction. And by the way, if you have total conviction and you're not a great salesperson,

you become a better salesperson. It just works that way. It does. So if you believe it, people believe you.

Aviva (29:25)
Sure.

Well, it's just authenticity. I have people say to me about the social media, like, it's so good because it's just you. And it's like, yeah, it is just me. Like, this is who I am. I will work in commercial real estate my entire life. And I like to share it with people. And people can tell when you're authentically genuine, persistent, passionate. So.

Rod Santomassimo (29:53)
great. And you're authentic. That's why that's why you have such a great following. People like you. They believe you.

Aviva (29:59)
Hey, and that's why you have such an amazing following and business with the Massimo Group. Rod, for the listeners, where can they find you, follow you, buy the book, etc?

Rod Santomassimo (30:05)
Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

Well, selling buildings will be available on Amazon. The hard copy, this is just a preview copy, will be available on Amazon. We think we know by May 20th, if not before. So definitely grab a book, investor, broker. This is a book you're going to want to read. There's so many lessons and nuggets. Great. Otherwise, if you're a commercial real estate broker and you want to start building that business and life you've always desired, like Aviva has started to do, check out Massimo at Massimo, M-A-S-S-I-M-O, dash group.com.

We love to work with you.

Aviva (30:44)
Rod, thank you so much for your time today.

And for

everybody listening, we'll see you next week.