Oct. 22, 2025
The Industrial Development Formula | Market Trends, Deal Making & Digital Presence
In this episode of Commercial Real Estate Secrets, Aviva Sonenreich sits down with Nick Sansone, Principal at Sansone Group, to talk about the evolution of industrial development, raising institutional capital, and building a legacy-driven business. From the surge in data center demand fueled by AI, to how to structure joint ventures with institutional partners, to why focusing on value over profit is the real key to long-term success, this conversation is packed with practical advice for anyone looking to scale in commercial real estate in 2026.
1
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,800
This week's listener of the week
is Kent's conundrum.
2
00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,560
Kent, thank you so much for
leaving us a five star review.
3
00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:13,760
And for those of you listening,
if you leave us a five star
4
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:20,240
review below you might be next
week's Listener of the Week Week
5
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,960
week.
This week on Commercial Real
6
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,600
Estate Secrets, we have Nick
Sansone.
7
00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:29,200
Nick is the principal at Sansone
Group.
8
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,320
Nick, thank you for being on the
show today.
9
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,120
Thanks for having me.
Nick, for the listeners, who are
10
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,720
you and what do you do in the
glorious world of commercial
11
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,120
real estate?
Well, my name's Nick Sansone.
12
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,360
As we just established, I'm a
principal at our family business
13
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,640
called the Sansone Group
alongside my two brothers, Jim
14
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,320
and Doug.
They're both principals as well.
15
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,360
And our company was founded and
started by our Dad about 68
16
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:05,920
years ago.
He passed away in 2020 and is a
17
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,400
backbone of our company
certainly.
18
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,600
And we continue his legacy
forward with what we do.
19
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,240
And what we do is we are real
estate developers.
20
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,760
So we develop industrial
warehouses around the United
21
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:23,600
States, strong credited anchored
retail shopping centers and we
22
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,440
also do data centers as well.
And then we're also a third
23
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,520
party service provider.
So we do the property management
24
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,000
and the brokerage and things of
that nature in the real estate
25
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,440
space.
So I could ask you questions all
26
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,200
day because this is right up my
alley.
27
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,440
We have a lot of warehouse
listeners in on this podcast.
28
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,240
What's the deal with data
centers?
29
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:52,520
Why is that the newest, hottest
product that we hear about but
30
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,440
we might not see?
Yeah.
31
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,840
Oh, it's tough space.
It's an expensive space.
32
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:02,000
But I think the obvious answer
to that is the AI, you know, all
33
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,480
of the AI technology that is
coming, that's already here and
34
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,200
that's growing so quickly.
You know, it's, it's essentially
35
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:17,240
a race to who can generate the
most power, the most electricity
36
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,920
far this AI technology really
between the United States and
37
00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:26,400
the rest of the world.
And so that falls into real
38
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,680
estate because it's, it's all
about the power that's available
39
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,800
on these different land sites.
And so you could have a
40
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,040
traditional industrial warehouse
and have access to power.
41
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,000
And instead of having, you know,
traditional type industrial
42
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,440
users like, you know, third
party distribution companies or
43
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,320
an Amazon, FedEx or what have
you, you end up having, you
44
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,640
know, one of these hyperscalers
as your tenant and they're
45
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:59,880
essentially leasing power from
you just within a brick and
46
00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,520
mortar space.
That's interesting.
47
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,040
So as much as I want to get into
the weeds about industrial real
48
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:14,200
estate development, I want to
kind of pull back now.
49
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,600
You and I have something in
common.
50
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,960
We both work in our family
business.
51
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,440
You know, everybody wants to
hear this story about how you
52
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,040
started from nothing.
And in commercial real estate,
53
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,640
it's very, very common to start
from your family business.
54
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,600
And that doesn't mean that you
didn't work or learn to get to
55
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,080
where you are today.
So say I wanted to be an
56
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,920
industrial developer like you.
What would you do to start as an
57
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,680
industrial developer in 2025?
Yeah, I, you know it.
58
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,520
I think it's like anything else.
Nothing happens overnight, OK.
59
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,640
And so to get into the
industrial space or any space
60
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,520
within the development world for
real estate, you know, there's
61
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,200
many different places you could
start.
62
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,440
I mean, if you wanted to be a
developer, I often say to start
63
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,080
in the banking world and learn
finance because it's all about
64
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,000
finance and it's all about what
kind of debt and what kind of
65
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,000
payment terms you can get on
your deal that ultimately drives
66
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,160
everything.
Secondly, you could start as a
67
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,360
broker.
Obviously there's plenty of
68
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,040
skills within brokerage, but I
think the most important aspect,
69
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,200
and I don't care what field
you're looking to get into, is
70
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,720
that when you get into it, you
have to think about the value
71
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,280
that you ultimately can provide
versus what you can receive.
72
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,880
And so if you're a broker and
the idea is to go out there and
73
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,360
list land deals or to make a
Commission on selling land, or,
74
00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:48,040
you know, perhaps you're, you
know, selling office space or
75
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,280
perhaps you're a tenant Rep
broker where you're helping
76
00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:52,920
somebody find their office
space.
77
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,200
You know, it's easier said than
done.
78
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,360
But if you don't focus so much
on the fee, but you focus on the
79
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,800
service provided, you focus on
the client, you focus on the
80
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,840
needs of what they want, things
start to just fall into a place.
81
00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,160
That's the same thing with
development.
82
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,160
Instead of just focusing on,
well, what can we make?
83
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,880
You know, how much money can we
make on this deal?
84
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,480
What about focusing on the needs
of the city?
85
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:16,960
What about focusing on what they
want?
86
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,840
What about focusing on how we
can bring jobs to the city and
87
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,120
how this development is going to
improve the community, improve
88
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,640
the community.
So when you think from that
89
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,680
lens, opportunities start to
come your way.
90
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,000
So if you want to get into
industrial development, you
91
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,480
obviously need to learn the
ropes.
92
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,960
I think a great way to do that
is in banking, understanding
93
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,520
finance, certainly in brokerage,
understanding the way real
94
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,520
estate works, certainly
shadowing with people that have
95
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,680
done it before you and following
their lead.
96
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,080
But at the end of the day, you
know have some values and care
97
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,320
about what you're offering
versus what you can get.
98
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,200
The more you give, the more you
get.
99
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,480
It's true.
I was just on a phone call with
100
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,560
a buddy of mine who was doing a
report.
101
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,600
He's a reporter.
We're talking about big box
102
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,840
industrial product.
We're talking about the last
103
00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:15,520
five years.
How there was we'll say last
104
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:21,480
five to 10 years a surge of
industrial big box product that
105
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:27,080
came to all of our markets and
now we're seeing a bit of a
106
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,480
pullback and lighter leasing
velocity.
107
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,280
From your experience, what has
happened in the last 10 years
108
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,680
that created this new wave of a
need for big box industrial
109
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,800
product followed by then the
pulled back?
110
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,360
Yeah.
I mean, over the last decade,
111
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,520
there's a lot of things that
have occurred.
112
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,720
But I mean, certainly when you
have the increase on the
113
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,200
e-commerce obviously changing
for brick and mortar, that was
114
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,160
one of the reasons we frankly
pivoted into the industrial
115
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,080
space not too long ago.
But we primarily had owned
116
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,440
retail, anchored shopping
centers and we developed mainly
117
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,320
retail, but we were looking at
the sales every month you get
118
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,800
the you get the sales reports
from all your tenants, at least
119
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,320
a good chunk of them.
We're seeing the sales was
120
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,960
continuing, starting to go down
and e-commerce was picking up at
121
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,120
that time.
And that was when there was all
122
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,680
the question of whether brick
and mortar was going to survive,
123
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,120
you know some of those major
retailers that were going out of
124
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,280
business and that was during
that time.
125
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,520
And so e-commerce obviously
increased, more packaged goods,
126
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,560
more warehouses, more logistic
companies needed, more
127
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,240
distribution needed across the
globe.
128
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,680
So that was one thing that
kicked up the industrial.
129
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,200
And then I think the second, the
obvious was COVID, you know,
130
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,200
when COVID shut down, when COVID
basically shut down the world,
131
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,840
everybody was at home,
everybody's ordering goods.
132
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,720
And then there was this, there
was a stockpile too, of demand
133
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,480
where everything stopped for a
while.
134
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,080
And then when it came back, it
came back on fire and we were
135
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,880
just explosive.
I mean, there you couldn't have
136
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,560
an industrial deal.
That didn't make sense because
137
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,920
there was so much built up
demand cause things had been on
138
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,560
pause for so long.
And I think now you see that
139
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,360
tapering down the tariff stuff,
you know, didn't help anything.
140
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,520
But I, we felt that that was
going to be a momentary type
141
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,720
situation.
It seems to be panning out that
142
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,760
way hopefully.
But at the end of the day, I
143
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,040
think it's like anything else.
When things are on fire,
144
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,080
everybody's in, everybody's
doing well, things start to slow
145
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,960
down and you weed out all the
junk and the folks that follow
146
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,960
the fundamentals and the
principles stay in.
147
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,120
And some of the fundamentals and
principles is dirt, location,
148
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,160
demand.
And we do not change our
149
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,240
fundamentals or principles no
matter what, no matter how great
150
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,160
the market is or if it's on, on
a, you know, complete hold.
151
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,000
And I think that's what's
critical, regardless of what's
152
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,760
going on out there, is to stick
to the basics.
153
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:07,040
So you're a developer in 2025.
Interest rates are all over the
154
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,240
place.
You know your debt market's all
155
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,040
over the place.
Your construction prices are all
156
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,600
over the place.
Property taxes aren't going
157
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,000
down.
Insurance nuts.
158
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,520
How are you underwriting deals?
Well, we had some good practice
159
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,760
over the last five years.
I mean interest rates were I
160
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:35,120
think in I think the cap rate on
a deal we had I think literally
161
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:42,160
in 3/4, we are underwriting and
at the time at a 4 1/2 exit and
162
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,240
I think by the time 3/4 went by
that thing had gone up to almost
163
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,480
6 1/2 or 7.
There was such a switch from the
164
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,560
boom of post COVID to them
things just stopping, you know,
165
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,600
when we went through all the
inflation and everything else,
166
00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,560
well, essentially the recession.
And I've never, ever seen a
167
00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:06,840
shift like that.
And the the prices on materials
168
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,080
during the COVID situation for
construction.
169
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,920
I mean, just if you had deals
you were underwriting at that
170
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,840
time, I mean, whatever
assumptions you made were
171
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,960
completely out the door.
And so there those times were
172
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,040
worse than not in my opinion, in
terms of the interest rates and
173
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,400
escalating costs and everything
else.
174
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,160
But again, you ask how we
underwrite the same we did then
175
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,040
is the same we do now.
You have to make sure that
176
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:37,040
you've got enough reserves in
your deal to cover for
177
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,520
unexpected circumstances.
You've got to make sure that the
178
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,600
exit cap that you're using is
conservative and have the
179
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,240
sensitivity where it's the deal
makes sense certainly on the
180
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,160
high end, but you've got to look
at it on the more conservative
181
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,760
end as well.
Same thing with your rents, you
182
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,040
know, are you trending them or
using what the rents are today?
183
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,560
So we like to be extremely
conservative with our models and
184
00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:08,320
it's the only way that you can
essentially account for all of
185
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:14,360
the volatility that's going on.
Make sure your reserves are, you
186
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,120
know, really accounted for and
up there 'cause you never know
187
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,040
what's going to happen and often
times something happens with
188
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,200
development that you didn't
expect.
189
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,520
We're having this conversation
today in our investment
190
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,680
committee and when deals that
the guys are presenting or the
191
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,200
gals are presenting bring it to
us.
192
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,160
We all have meet on investment
and it was a deal that we were
193
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,680
looking at and that it's a good
looking deal, but it is a lot of
194
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:48,680
the assumptions being made are
based on what we believe is
195
00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,640
coming in terms of the market.
Well, if this development
196
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,480
happens and if this development
happens and if these rents start
197
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,880
going the way we anticipate,
we'll be able to get this exit
198
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,080
cap, we'll be able to get this
type of rent.
199
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:06,320
You know, and it may very well
go that direction, but that's
200
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,920
not how we underwrite deals.
If we have a development deal or
201
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,120
an acquisition deal that we're
looking at, that deal has to
202
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:18,000
make sense right now based on
today's cap rates, based on
203
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,760
today's rents.
And we have to have a lot of fat
204
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,040
in there to cover for things
going wrong.
205
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,720
Sure, there's a time and a place
for pro formas, but not in my
206
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,640
office.
I I don't love pro formas
207
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,600
because for that very reason.
It's like, let's let's work on
208
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,120
today's realities and can we
make this pencil now as opposed
209
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,760
to underwriting with 2022 rents
and a dream sub.
210
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,320
But yeah, I won't get it.
Get it.
211
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,240
Bye.
My number was so we connected.
212
00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,120
Because you have recently made a
splash online, taking your
213
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:06,920
presence to the web, what
inspired you to finally hop on
214
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,320
and start sharing your story?
Yeah, it's a good question.
215
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:17,720
I ask myself that all the time.
You know, our father was a a
216
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:23,560
real pioneer and he was a great
mentor and teacher and he always
217
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:26,320
used to tell us about the real
estate business being a thinking
218
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,640
man's game.
And if you're not thinking of
219
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,440
what's coming and if you're not
constantly evolving, you're
220
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,760
getting passed up.
And so when you look at the
221
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,320
influence of social media, it's,
you can't deny it right now.
222
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,400
We can all talk about how it
drives us crazy and it's, you
223
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,280
know, the demise of society and
everybody's in their phones and
224
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,840
everything else.
Well, you know, that's the
225
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,280
duality of our existence.
Everything can be good and
226
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,320
everything can be bad.
And it depends on how you use
227
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,160
it.
A glass of wine might be really
228
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,840
relaxing.
You drink 3 bottles, you might
229
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,680
end up in a gutter.
So I look at the same thing for
230
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,800
social OK.
And I, I, I feel it's an
231
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:12,720
opportunity to brand yourself
and market yourself to a
232
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,120
different audience or into an
expansive audience.
233
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,560
You know, in the real estate
space, we're always going to
234
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,680
different conferences.
And you'll sponsor that
235
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,480
conference for one reason.
So your name and your consign
236
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,160
can go up, right?
So that when the brokers think
237
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,560
about doing a deal, they think
of you.
238
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,480
Well, if you have access, you do
one coaster, you know, a real
239
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,400
and you know 10,000 people or
50,100 thousand people or
240
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,520
something can go look and view
that just by two seconds click
241
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,680
of a button.
The only thing stopping other
242
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,280
real estate folks from utilizing
social media is their own
243
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,840
concern of oh, what's somebody
going to say or what have you.
244
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,200
So for me it was really just
about that.
245
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,040
It was, look, this is another
way to market ourselves.
246
00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,560
This is another way to brand
yourself.
247
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,040
You create a community, you can
spread your message that you
248
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,720
hope is a +1 to have an impact
on others.
249
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,880
And you know, you can use it for
a lot of different things.
250
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,120
So that's why I decided to dive
into it.
251
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,600
But I, I'd say that was
influenced by our father because
252
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,040
he was a guy.
I remember her dad at he passed
253
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,360
and I guess he was 93 years old,
but my gosh, dad must have been
254
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:27,480
90 and he had his cell phone and
he was insistent on texting and
255
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,440
knowing how that worked and
everything else.
256
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:36,160
Like he he refused to let the
times pass him by.
257
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,160
And he was a he was a lifelong
learner.
258
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,080
So I was kind of a dinosaur with
social still.
259
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,640
I am, but you know, I learn
everyday.
260
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,560
So I decided to dive in.
Oh please.
261
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:55,280
In our business, it is
profoundly impactful and we are
262
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,240
just starting to really
starting.
263
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,120
I know I I closed my biggest
deal on last Friday.
264
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,600
Source from social media.
Couple bucks short of 10
265
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,400
million.
I love hearing that.
266
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,640
That it's real.
It is so real your head would
267
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,200
spin.
Very good.
268
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,520
Yeah, Yeah.
And you know, I'm with you on
269
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,520
that.
I think we're, you know, it
270
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,480
seems like our space or real
estate space, we're slow to get
271
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,280
on board with different things.
I don't know if it's just we're
272
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,520
all just very traditional or
stuck in our ways or what with
273
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,640
things, I don't know.
And by the way, I'm not
274
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,080
knocking, I'm talking about
myself, our company as well.
275
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,200
Like it just seems to be the
nature of anybody in real
276
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,640
estate.
We're slow to jump onto these
277
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,280
things.
But I do believe we're just
278
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,000
touching the surface.
And I think the same thing with
279
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,320
AI technology for any industry,
right?
280
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,640
But I think the same thing for
us in real estate, like there
281
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,280
are so many different ways that
AI can help us.
282
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,400
I think we're just touching the
surface to learn that.
283
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,400
So, but that's a, it's really
encouraging to hear that.
284
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,520
I love hearing that that you
close that deal all through
285
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,200
social.
The reality is, is that when you
286
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,160
put a video on the Internet and
then you put your head down on
287
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,839
your pillow to sleep at night,
that video is still working for
288
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,680
you, right?
It's like Uber networking and
289
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,480
compound interest combined.
You make a video, you go to
290
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,240
sleep, the people are watching
it, consuming you.
291
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,040
They start to figure out who you
are.
292
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,360
They trust you, right?
And authenticity is real.
293
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,480
And people can sniff you out on
the Internet.
294
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,240
That is real.
They sure came.
295
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,080
All of it to say if they feel
you're authentic, yeah, and you
296
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,240
provide a value to the person on
the other side, your videos will
297
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,320
work overtime for you when you
don't have to be at that
298
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,240
networking event.
Right.
299
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,200
And it's.
Well said.
300
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,200
It's.
Powerful.
301
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,680
Yeah, I agree with you.
So keep going, I know you are
302
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,720
rolling out the legacy driven
deal making course.
303
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,960
I am.
Tell me about.
304
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,360
That tool for social, Yeah.
Well, you know, we, for all of
305
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:15,480
our real estate transactions
prior to 2015, we did it just
306
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,400
with our own capital, you know,
our own money, friends and
307
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,280
family and that sort of thing.
You know, and we had to, I
308
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,440
always say this, my brothers and
I had, we're very blessed to be
309
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,840
able to walk into a business
that was already established.
310
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,360
You know, you talk about
self-made.
311
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,520
We're the furthest thing from
self-made.
312
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,240
You know, our father was a
self-made man.
313
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,120
And what's funny is that when
you ask him how he got to where
314
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,280
he, he was in his, in his
career, how he accomplished what
315
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,400
he did in his lifetime, coming
from very humble beginnings, an
316
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,360
immigrant from Italy, very, very
little financial means of any
317
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,640
kind.
He never called himself a
318
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,000
self-made man.
He said the reason he was able
319
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,440
to do what he did was because of
the love his father had for him
320
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,440
and the belief his father had in
him, which in turn gave him a
321
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,120
belief in himself.
And so he knew all he could do
322
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,080
is believe in himself and he
always felt he was going to make
323
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,680
it no matter what.
He didn't even know how.
324
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,880
And he knew that if he didn't
have the education cause often
325
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,600
times he was far out educated
from his competition.
326
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,000
He didn't have the education.
He knew he had one thing he
327
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,720
could outwork his competition.
Then the only other thing is he
328
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,720
kept his word.
But anyways, his legacy is, is
329
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,720
essentially what keeps us
rolling.
330
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,240
And then ultimately, we create
our own legacy by building upon
331
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,120
what he started.
And one of the ways that we
332
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,000
decided to build on what he
started was to start forming
333
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,360
capital partnerships with
institutional capital.
334
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,480
The sovereign wealth funds, you
know, pension fund advisors,
335
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,600
endowment funds and groups
manage that kind of money.
336
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,920
They're all over the place.
You know, Goldman Sachs,
337
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:57,200
Invesco, Fortress, their real
estate investment trust reads,
338
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,880
public companies, private
companies.
339
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:04,120
And so we felt the only way to
get us to the next level would
340
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:09,240
be to partner up with those type
of groups on the equity side,
341
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,560
not on the debt sect.
And in 2015, that's what we did
342
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,280
and we did a joint venture with
Goldman Sachs.
343
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,160
It was after about three years
of myself and my one brother
344
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,160
going around all over the
country getting told no over and
345
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,360
over and over, just selling
ourselves, talking about who we
346
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:30,280
are, our track record and.
We were finally able to do a
347
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,760
deal with Goldman Sachs.
We got lucky, but we had no idea
348
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,520
what we were doing.
We had no idea how to structure
349
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,800
the joint venture.
There was this whole waterfall
350
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,000
schedule and a promoted interest
and a carried interest.
351
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,960
Had no idea what any of that
was, no idea what fees we could
352
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,720
charge, what a sponsor meant,
what a, what a, you know,
353
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,840
managing partner meant within
the deal.
354
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,760
And we structured it.
And from that point we ended up
355
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,040
doing to this day we've done I
think 33 joint ventures.
356
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,360
We've deployed close to a
billion dollars in limited
357
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:04,800
partner money and we've done,
you know, billions and billions
358
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,920
of dollars of real estate.
Right now our pipeline is almost
359
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,440
60 million square feet combined
totals about $9.8 billion.
360
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,120
Would have never, ever, ever
done that without the partners
361
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,800
that we have.
And we've been fortunate to have
362
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,440
really awesome partners.
And so this course is about how
363
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,200
to do that, how to structure
your real estate deal in a way
364
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,240
that is optically attractive to
an institutional partner, how to
365
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,720
structure yourself and market
yourself in a way that is
366
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,360
attractive to them.
How to handle that first phone
367
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,720
call when you get on the phone
with them, how to market the
368
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,680
deal, how to market you, what's
important in that, what markets
369
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,000
they look for.
And I talk on industrial, but I
370
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,560
also cover some things in
retail.
371
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,120
But the bottom line is it's not
specific to anyone industry.
372
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:56,120
It's more about how you talk to
talk what they look far from a
373
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,600
pro forma standpoint, What's
important to them?
374
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,320
Is it IRR, is it equity
multiple?
375
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,720
Is it yield on cost?
How do they calculate it?
376
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,960
We go through a lot of different
waterfalls.
377
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,160
We literally give all of the
waterfalls that we've ever done
378
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800
where someone could take that
waterfall structure and go apply
379
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,600
it to a deal themselves.
So, you know, I can't promise
380
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,920
that someone that takes that
course is going to like go out
381
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,200
now and raise a bunch of money
with institutional capital.
382
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,440
But I can tell you this, they'll
be extremely well equipped.
383
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,640
And the other thing I'm going to
do with that is have a monthly,
384
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,920
I might do twice a month call
with those that sign up for it
385
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,120
where we just talk shop.
We talk, you know about deals,
386
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,360
what what the institutional
groups are looking for.
387
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,680
I have some guys call in.
One is the president of a public
388
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:41,960
company that's one of our
partners.
389
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,120
And I talked directly to him of
like what he looks for.
390
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,680
And one of the questions I asked
you say, look, if you're not a
391
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,480
68 year family business, if you
haven't done this before, but
392
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,680
you got yourself an awesome
deal, what's important to you to
393
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,480
partner up with that person?
And his answer is pretty cool.
394
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,880
So anyways, I did it because
when we did it, there was
395
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,160
nothing out there.
We had to learn the hard way.
396
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,000
We've essentially taken, you
know, the 10 plus years we've
397
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,600
been doing this and put it into
a course the best I could.
398
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,480
What I always say is I had the
privilege of growing up at a
399
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,400
dinner table where all we talked
about was real estate and
400
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,800
commercial real estate has
always been a largely gate kept
401
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,920
industry.
But the Internet has given us
402
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,080
the ability to teach people who
might have not been, you know,
403
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,360
the people who are not as
privileged as I, as you or
404
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,640
myself to be at the dinner table
with these players.
405
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,880
It has just levelled the playing
field.
406
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,600
And I think overall it's just
badass that you are willing to
407
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,440
share your information, because
I feel like a lot of people
408
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,720
don't want to do that.
Yeah.
409
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,280
You know, we thought about that
and it's a good point.
410
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,640
And you know, first of all, I
think there is plenty of real
411
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,560
estate to go around, OK.
And I think that when you
412
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,240
approach, like I said at the
beginning about what you can
413
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,720
give versus what you can get, I
think it's just a, a rule of
414
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,840
life that it comes back tenfold.
And genuinely, when I tell you
415
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,640
back when we did that joint
venture, we had no idea what
416
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,360
we're doing.
And genuinely, when I tell you
417
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,000
there's nothing out there that
explains it, I really felt
418
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,640
there's a void for that.
The other aspect I really
419
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,360
thought about is it's an
opportunity to build community
420
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,480
and to connect with other real
estate professionals.
421
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,240
You know, here's the, here's the
truth there.
422
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,080
There could be a lot of these
folks out there that have great
423
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,800
real estate deals and they may
sign up for the course and learn
424
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,120
it that way.
The other thing they can do, you
425
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,680
can reach out to me and say,
hey, we need help on this real
426
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,600
estate deal, partner up with us
and let's go get some capital to
427
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,480
do it.
Because I'd say of all the
428
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,920
square feet I had mentioned, I
don't know if it's 50%, but it's
429
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,440
close to half is opportunities
that are brought to us from
430
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,320
other real estate professionals
or people that dabble in the
431
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,960
space that have like a great
piece of ground tied up, but
432
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,320
they need some assistance in
getting it finished.
433
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,560
And so we end up partnering with
them.
434
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,120
We form a joint venture
agreement and then we bring our
435
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,760
partners to the table and we all
do the deal together.
436
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,560
So it's frankly another
opportunity to find real estate
437
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,280
as well.
And if we never do and it's just
438
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,400
people take this course and
they're able to structure their
439
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,400
own JB's and have some great
relationships and I got
440
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,760
something to do with that.
I'd say that's pretty good karma
441
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,080
as well.
Love it.
442
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,560
I'm excited to see it come out
and to see how it unfolds for
443
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,520
you.
Now for the moment all the
444
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,920
listeners are waiting for what
is your commercial real estate
445
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,120
secret?
It's not my commercial real
446
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,280
estate Secret is not sexy at
all.
447
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,400
I think the secret is what I
said at the very beginning.
448
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,720
Think about what value you can
bring, not what you can get.
449
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:08,200
And that can be as easy as if
you have a deal and you're
450
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,240
looking for a partner and you
want that partner on your deal,
451
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,120
right?
Well, if you're thinking about
452
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,960
it from your lens, you're going
to send them the deal.
453
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,880
You're going to be have your
fingers crossed, hope they open
454
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,800
it, hope they read it and hope
they give you the money that
455
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,320
you're looking for.
But if you're thinking about it
456
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,280
from their lens, you're going to
research them.
457
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,840
You're going to see what type of
real estate they invest in.
458
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,680
You're going to see how much
money they like to invest, where
459
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,760
in the United States they like
to invest, how long they hold
460
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,240
the real estate.
You're going to make a real
461
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,040
effort in looking into what
their needs are.
462
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,960
So then think about if you go
from it from that vantage point
463
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,920
and then you send a deal to them
and you've broken out the deal
464
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,200
in an e-mail in like 6 easy
points that all touch on hot
465
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,640
buttons for them.
Hey, such and such.
466
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,280
I have this deal in Georgia and
I know you really like this
467
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,520
market.
I saw that you did XYZ deal here
468
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,160
and you know this is going to be
a, you know, half a million
469
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,520
square foot industrial
warehouse.
470
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,160
You know, just like the deal
that you did across the street
471
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,800
that was, you know, 250,000
square feet.
472
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,720
It's within your parameter in
terms of deal size.
473
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,920
You know, it's a value add play
in the sense that you develop it
474
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,960
and then you sell it.
So it's a short term hold
475
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,720
notice.
You like to do a lot of merchant
476
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,720
build that play versus just
sending out.
477
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,920
And I can't tell you how many
times I've gotten just a random
478
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,440
OM offering them a random or a
deal.
479
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,440
It's just an attachment and like
it this is, you know, this is
480
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,120
like a mobile park site.
Like we've never done mobile
481
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,000
parks in our life.
Mobile parks are amazing, but
482
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,160
we've never done it like so.
But if you think about the value
483
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,080
that you can bring versus what
you can get in any scenario, in
484
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,520
any scenario, your your
productivity and your success
485
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,240
will be 50 times over what it
would be if you're just thinking
486
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,920
for yourself.
Very full circle to where we
487
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,320
started.
The more you give, the more you
488
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,920
get.
It's as simple.
489
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,560
Nick, for the listeners who
might want to learn more about
490
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:26,400
your family or your product or
submit a site that's well
491
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,360
researched, where can they find
you following, etcetera.
492
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,720
That's well researched.
That's a good point.
493
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:40,360
So my social is Nick G like
George, but it stands for Gerard
494
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,040
Sansone.
SANSONE.
495
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:49,240
And then information on the
course is at nickgsansone.com.
496
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Nickgsansone.com Nick, thank you
for being on the show today.
497
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,080
I I really appreciate you making
the time to chat with us.
498
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,640
And for everybody listening,
we'll see you next week.
499
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,720
And that's a wrap for this week
on commercial real estate
500
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,720
secrets.
If you found value, do us a
501
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,600
favor and subscribe, leave a
review and share it with a
502
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,920
fellow commercial real estate
lover.
503
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,120
For brokerage services or to
connect, visit
504
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,800
warehousehotline.com.
I'm Aviva.
505
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,400
We'll see you next week.
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,800
This week's listener of the week
is Kent's conundrum.
2
00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,560
Kent, thank you so much for
leaving us a five star review.
3
00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:13,760
And for those of you listening,
if you leave us a five star
4
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:20,240
review below you might be next
week's Listener of the Week Week
5
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,960
week.
This week on Commercial Real
6
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,600
Estate Secrets, we have Nick
Sansone.
7
00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:29,200
Nick is the principal at Sansone
Group.
8
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,320
Nick, thank you for being on the
show today.
9
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,120
Thanks for having me.
Nick, for the listeners, who are
10
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,720
you and what do you do in the
glorious world of commercial
11
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,120
real estate?
Well, my name's Nick Sansone.
12
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,360
As we just established, I'm a
principal at our family business
13
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,640
called the Sansone Group
alongside my two brothers, Jim
14
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,320
and Doug.
They're both principals as well.
15
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,360
And our company was founded and
started by our Dad about 68
16
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:05,920
years ago.
He passed away in 2020 and is a
17
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,400
backbone of our company
certainly.
18
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,600
And we continue his legacy
forward with what we do.
19
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,240
And what we do is we are real
estate developers.
20
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,760
So we develop industrial
warehouses around the United
21
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:23,600
States, strong credited anchored
retail shopping centers and we
22
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,440
also do data centers as well.
And then we're also a third
23
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,520
party service provider.
So we do the property management
24
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,000
and the brokerage and things of
that nature in the real estate
25
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,440
space.
So I could ask you questions all
26
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,200
day because this is right up my
alley.
27
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,440
We have a lot of warehouse
listeners in on this podcast.
28
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,240
What's the deal with data
centers?
29
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:52,520
Why is that the newest, hottest
product that we hear about but
30
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,440
we might not see?
Yeah.
31
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,840
Oh, it's tough space.
It's an expensive space.
32
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:02,000
But I think the obvious answer
to that is the AI, you know, all
33
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,480
of the AI technology that is
coming, that's already here and
34
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,200
that's growing so quickly.
You know, it's, it's essentially
35
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:17,240
a race to who can generate the
most power, the most electricity
36
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,920
far this AI technology really
between the United States and
37
00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:26,400
the rest of the world.
And so that falls into real
38
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,680
estate because it's, it's all
about the power that's available
39
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,800
on these different land sites.
And so you could have a
40
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,040
traditional industrial warehouse
and have access to power.
41
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,000
And instead of having, you know,
traditional type industrial
42
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,440
users like, you know, third
party distribution companies or
43
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,320
an Amazon, FedEx or what have
you, you end up having, you
44
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,640
know, one of these hyperscalers
as your tenant and they're
45
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:59,880
essentially leasing power from
you just within a brick and
46
00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,520
mortar space.
That's interesting.
47
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,040
So as much as I want to get into
the weeds about industrial real
48
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:14,200
estate development, I want to
kind of pull back now.
49
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,600
You and I have something in
common.
50
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,960
We both work in our family
business.
51
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,440
You know, everybody wants to
hear this story about how you
52
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,040
started from nothing.
And in commercial real estate,
53
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,640
it's very, very common to start
from your family business.
54
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,600
And that doesn't mean that you
didn't work or learn to get to
55
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,080
where you are today.
So say I wanted to be an
56
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,920
industrial developer like you.
What would you do to start as an
57
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,680
industrial developer in 2025?
Yeah, I, you know it.
58
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,520
I think it's like anything else.
Nothing happens overnight, OK.
59
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,640
And so to get into the
industrial space or any space
60
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,520
within the development world for
real estate, you know, there's
61
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,200
many different places you could
start.
62
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,440
I mean, if you wanted to be a
developer, I often say to start
63
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,080
in the banking world and learn
finance because it's all about
64
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,000
finance and it's all about what
kind of debt and what kind of
65
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,000
payment terms you can get on
your deal that ultimately drives
66
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,160
everything.
Secondly, you could start as a
67
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,360
broker.
Obviously there's plenty of
68
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,040
skills within brokerage, but I
think the most important aspect,
69
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,200
and I don't care what field
you're looking to get into, is
70
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,720
that when you get into it, you
have to think about the value
71
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,280
that you ultimately can provide
versus what you can receive.
72
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,880
And so if you're a broker and
the idea is to go out there and
73
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,360
list land deals or to make a
Commission on selling land, or,
74
00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:48,040
you know, perhaps you're, you
know, selling office space or
75
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,280
perhaps you're a tenant Rep
broker where you're helping
76
00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:52,920
somebody find their office
space.
77
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,200
You know, it's easier said than
done.
78
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,360
But if you don't focus so much
on the fee, but you focus on the
79
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,800
service provided, you focus on
the client, you focus on the
80
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,840
needs of what they want, things
start to just fall into a place.
81
00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,160
That's the same thing with
development.
82
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,160
Instead of just focusing on,
well, what can we make?
83
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,880
You know, how much money can we
make on this deal?
84
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,480
What about focusing on the needs
of the city?
85
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:16,960
What about focusing on what they
want?
86
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,840
What about focusing on how we
can bring jobs to the city and
87
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,120
how this development is going to
improve the community, improve
88
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,640
the community.
So when you think from that
89
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,680
lens, opportunities start to
come your way.
90
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,000
So if you want to get into
industrial development, you
91
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,480
obviously need to learn the
ropes.
92
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,960
I think a great way to do that
is in banking, understanding
93
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,520
finance, certainly in brokerage,
understanding the way real
94
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,520
estate works, certainly
shadowing with people that have
95
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,680
done it before you and following
their lead.
96
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,080
But at the end of the day, you
know have some values and care
97
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,320
about what you're offering
versus what you can get.
98
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,200
The more you give, the more you
get.
99
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,480
It's true.
I was just on a phone call with
100
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,560
a buddy of mine who was doing a
report.
101
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,600
He's a reporter.
We're talking about big box
102
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,840
industrial product.
We're talking about the last
103
00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:15,520
five years.
How there was we'll say last
104
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:21,480
five to 10 years a surge of
industrial big box product that
105
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:27,080
came to all of our markets and
now we're seeing a bit of a
106
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,480
pullback and lighter leasing
velocity.
107
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,280
From your experience, what has
happened in the last 10 years
108
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,680
that created this new wave of a
need for big box industrial
109
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,800
product followed by then the
pulled back?
110
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,360
Yeah.
I mean, over the last decade,
111
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,520
there's a lot of things that
have occurred.
112
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,720
But I mean, certainly when you
have the increase on the
113
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,200
e-commerce obviously changing
for brick and mortar, that was
114
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,160
one of the reasons we frankly
pivoted into the industrial
115
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,080
space not too long ago.
But we primarily had owned
116
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,440
retail, anchored shopping
centers and we developed mainly
117
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,320
retail, but we were looking at
the sales every month you get
118
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,800
the you get the sales reports
from all your tenants, at least
119
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,320
a good chunk of them.
We're seeing the sales was
120
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,960
continuing, starting to go down
and e-commerce was picking up at
121
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,120
that time.
And that was when there was all
122
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,680
the question of whether brick
and mortar was going to survive,
123
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,120
you know some of those major
retailers that were going out of
124
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,280
business and that was during
that time.
125
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,520
And so e-commerce obviously
increased, more packaged goods,
126
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,560
more warehouses, more logistic
companies needed, more
127
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,240
distribution needed across the
globe.
128
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,680
So that was one thing that
kicked up the industrial.
129
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,200
And then I think the second, the
obvious was COVID, you know,
130
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,200
when COVID shut down, when COVID
basically shut down the world,
131
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,840
everybody was at home,
everybody's ordering goods.
132
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,720
And then there was this, there
was a stockpile too, of demand
133
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,480
where everything stopped for a
while.
134
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,080
And then when it came back, it
came back on fire and we were
135
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,880
just explosive.
I mean, there you couldn't have
136
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,560
an industrial deal.
That didn't make sense because
137
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,920
there was so much built up
demand cause things had been on
138
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,560
pause for so long.
And I think now you see that
139
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,360
tapering down the tariff stuff,
you know, didn't help anything.
140
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,520
But I, we felt that that was
going to be a momentary type
141
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,720
situation.
It seems to be panning out that
142
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,760
way hopefully.
But at the end of the day, I
143
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,040
think it's like anything else.
When things are on fire,
144
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,080
everybody's in, everybody's
doing well, things start to slow
145
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,960
down and you weed out all the
junk and the folks that follow
146
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,960
the fundamentals and the
principles stay in.
147
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,120
And some of the fundamentals and
principles is dirt, location,
148
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,160
demand.
And we do not change our
149
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,240
fundamentals or principles no
matter what, no matter how great
150
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,160
the market is or if it's on, on
a, you know, complete hold.
151
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,000
And I think that's what's
critical, regardless of what's
152
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,760
going on out there, is to stick
to the basics.
153
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:07,040
So you're a developer in 2025.
Interest rates are all over the
154
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,240
place.
You know your debt market's all
155
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,040
over the place.
Your construction prices are all
156
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,600
over the place.
Property taxes aren't going
157
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,000
down.
Insurance nuts.
158
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,520
How are you underwriting deals?
Well, we had some good practice
159
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,760
over the last five years.
I mean interest rates were I
160
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:35,120
think in I think the cap rate on
a deal we had I think literally
161
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:42,160
in 3/4, we are underwriting and
at the time at a 4 1/2 exit and
162
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,240
I think by the time 3/4 went by
that thing had gone up to almost
163
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,480
6 1/2 or 7.
There was such a switch from the
164
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,560
boom of post COVID to them
things just stopping, you know,
165
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,600
when we went through all the
inflation and everything else,
166
00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,560
well, essentially the recession.
And I've never, ever seen a
167
00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:06,840
shift like that.
And the the prices on materials
168
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,080
during the COVID situation for
construction.
169
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,920
I mean, just if you had deals
you were underwriting at that
170
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,840
time, I mean, whatever
assumptions you made were
171
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,960
completely out the door.
And so there those times were
172
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,040
worse than not in my opinion, in
terms of the interest rates and
173
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,400
escalating costs and everything
else.
174
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,160
But again, you ask how we
underwrite the same we did then
175
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,040
is the same we do now.
You have to make sure that
176
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:37,040
you've got enough reserves in
your deal to cover for
177
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,520
unexpected circumstances.
You've got to make sure that the
178
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,600
exit cap that you're using is
conservative and have the
179
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,240
sensitivity where it's the deal
makes sense certainly on the
180
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,160
high end, but you've got to look
at it on the more conservative
181
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,760
end as well.
Same thing with your rents, you
182
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,040
know, are you trending them or
using what the rents are today?
183
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,560
So we like to be extremely
conservative with our models and
184
00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:08,320
it's the only way that you can
essentially account for all of
185
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:14,360
the volatility that's going on.
Make sure your reserves are, you
186
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,120
know, really accounted for and
up there 'cause you never know
187
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,040
what's going to happen and often
times something happens with
188
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,200
development that you didn't
expect.
189
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,520
We're having this conversation
today in our investment
190
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,680
committee and when deals that
the guys are presenting or the
191
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,200
gals are presenting bring it to
us.
192
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,160
We all have meet on investment
and it was a deal that we were
193
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,680
looking at and that it's a good
looking deal, but it is a lot of
194
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:48,680
the assumptions being made are
based on what we believe is
195
00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,640
coming in terms of the market.
Well, if this development
196
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,480
happens and if this development
happens and if these rents start
197
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,880
going the way we anticipate,
we'll be able to get this exit
198
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,080
cap, we'll be able to get this
type of rent.
199
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:06,320
You know, and it may very well
go that direction, but that's
200
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,920
not how we underwrite deals.
If we have a development deal or
201
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,120
an acquisition deal that we're
looking at, that deal has to
202
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:18,000
make sense right now based on
today's cap rates, based on
203
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,760
today's rents.
And we have to have a lot of fat
204
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,040
in there to cover for things
going wrong.
205
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,720
Sure, there's a time and a place
for pro formas, but not in my
206
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,640
office.
I I don't love pro formas
207
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,600
because for that very reason.
It's like, let's let's work on
208
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,120
today's realities and can we
make this pencil now as opposed
209
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,760
to underwriting with 2022 rents
and a dream sub.
210
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,320
But yeah, I won't get it.
Get it.
211
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,240
Bye.
My number was so we connected.
212
00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,120
Because you have recently made a
splash online, taking your
213
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:06,920
presence to the web, what
inspired you to finally hop on
214
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,320
and start sharing your story?
Yeah, it's a good question.
215
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:17,720
I ask myself that all the time.
You know, our father was a a
216
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:23,560
real pioneer and he was a great
mentor and teacher and he always
217
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:26,320
used to tell us about the real
estate business being a thinking
218
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,640
man's game.
And if you're not thinking of
219
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,440
what's coming and if you're not
constantly evolving, you're
220
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,760
getting passed up.
And so when you look at the
221
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,320
influence of social media, it's,
you can't deny it right now.
222
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,400
We can all talk about how it
drives us crazy and it's, you
223
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,280
know, the demise of society and
everybody's in their phones and
224
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,840
everything else.
Well, you know, that's the
225
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,280
duality of our existence.
Everything can be good and
226
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,320
everything can be bad.
And it depends on how you use
227
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,160
it.
A glass of wine might be really
228
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,840
relaxing.
You drink 3 bottles, you might
229
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,680
end up in a gutter.
So I look at the same thing for
230
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,800
social OK.
And I, I, I feel it's an
231
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:12,720
opportunity to brand yourself
and market yourself to a
232
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,120
different audience or into an
expansive audience.
233
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,560
You know, in the real estate
space, we're always going to
234
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,680
different conferences.
And you'll sponsor that
235
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,480
conference for one reason.
So your name and your consign
236
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,160
can go up, right?
So that when the brokers think
237
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,560
about doing a deal, they think
of you.
238
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,480
Well, if you have access, you do
one coaster, you know, a real
239
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,400
and you know 10,000 people or
50,100 thousand people or
240
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,520
something can go look and view
that just by two seconds click
241
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,680
of a button.
The only thing stopping other
242
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,280
real estate folks from utilizing
social media is their own
243
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,840
concern of oh, what's somebody
going to say or what have you.
244
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,200
So for me it was really just
about that.
245
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,040
It was, look, this is another
way to market ourselves.
246
00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,560
This is another way to brand
yourself.
247
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,040
You create a community, you can
spread your message that you
248
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,720
hope is a +1 to have an impact
on others.
249
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,880
And you know, you can use it for
a lot of different things.
250
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,120
So that's why I decided to dive
into it.
251
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,600
But I, I'd say that was
influenced by our father because
252
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,040
he was a guy.
I remember her dad at he passed
253
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,360
and I guess he was 93 years old,
but my gosh, dad must have been
254
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:27,480
90 and he had his cell phone and
he was insistent on texting and
255
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,440
knowing how that worked and
everything else.
256
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:36,160
Like he he refused to let the
times pass him by.
257
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,160
And he was a he was a lifelong
learner.
258
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,080
So I was kind of a dinosaur with
social still.
259
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,640
I am, but you know, I learn
everyday.
260
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,560
So I decided to dive in.
Oh please.
261
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:55,280
In our business, it is
profoundly impactful and we are
262
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,240
just starting to really
starting.
263
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,120
I know I I closed my biggest
deal on last Friday.
264
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,600
Source from social media.
Couple bucks short of 10
265
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,400
million.
I love hearing that.
266
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,640
That it's real.
It is so real your head would
267
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,200
spin.
Very good.
268
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,520
Yeah, Yeah.
And you know, I'm with you on
269
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,520
that.
I think we're, you know, it
270
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,480
seems like our space or real
estate space, we're slow to get
271
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,280
on board with different things.
I don't know if it's just we're
272
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,520
all just very traditional or
stuck in our ways or what with
273
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,640
things, I don't know.
And by the way, I'm not
274
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,080
knocking, I'm talking about
myself, our company as well.
275
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,200
Like it just seems to be the
nature of anybody in real
276
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,640
estate.
We're slow to jump onto these
277
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,280
things.
But I do believe we're just
278
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,000
touching the surface.
And I think the same thing with
279
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,320
AI technology for any industry,
right?
280
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,640
But I think the same thing for
us in real estate, like there
281
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,280
are so many different ways that
AI can help us.
282
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,400
I think we're just touching the
surface to learn that.
283
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,400
So, but that's a, it's really
encouraging to hear that.
284
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,520
I love hearing that that you
close that deal all through
285
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,200
social.
The reality is, is that when you
286
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,160
put a video on the Internet and
then you put your head down on
287
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,839
your pillow to sleep at night,
that video is still working for
288
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,680
you, right?
It's like Uber networking and
289
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,480
compound interest combined.
You make a video, you go to
290
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,240
sleep, the people are watching
it, consuming you.
291
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,040
They start to figure out who you
are.
292
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,360
They trust you, right?
And authenticity is real.
293
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,480
And people can sniff you out on
the Internet.
294
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,240
That is real.
They sure came.
295
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,080
All of it to say if they feel
you're authentic, yeah, and you
296
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,240
provide a value to the person on
the other side, your videos will
297
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,320
work overtime for you when you
don't have to be at that
298
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,240
networking event.
Right.
299
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,200
And it's.
Well said.
300
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,200
It's.
Powerful.
301
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,680
Yeah, I agree with you.
So keep going, I know you are
302
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,720
rolling out the legacy driven
deal making course.
303
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,960
I am.
Tell me about.
304
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,360
That tool for social, Yeah.
Well, you know, we, for all of
305
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:15,480
our real estate transactions
prior to 2015, we did it just
306
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,400
with our own capital, you know,
our own money, friends and
307
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,280
family and that sort of thing.
You know, and we had to, I
308
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,440
always say this, my brothers and
I had, we're very blessed to be
309
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,840
able to walk into a business
that was already established.
310
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,360
You know, you talk about
self-made.
311
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,520
We're the furthest thing from
self-made.
312
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,240
You know, our father was a
self-made man.
313
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,120
And what's funny is that when
you ask him how he got to where
314
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,280
he, he was in his, in his
career, how he accomplished what
315
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,400
he did in his lifetime, coming
from very humble beginnings, an
316
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,360
immigrant from Italy, very, very
little financial means of any
317
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,640
kind.
He never called himself a
318
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,000
self-made man.
He said the reason he was able
319
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,440
to do what he did was because of
the love his father had for him
320
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,440
and the belief his father had in
him, which in turn gave him a
321
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,120
belief in himself.
And so he knew all he could do
322
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,080
is believe in himself and he
always felt he was going to make
323
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,680
it no matter what.
He didn't even know how.
324
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,880
And he knew that if he didn't
have the education cause often
325
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,600
times he was far out educated
from his competition.
326
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,000
He didn't have the education.
He knew he had one thing he
327
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,720
could outwork his competition.
Then the only other thing is he
328
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,720
kept his word.
But anyways, his legacy is, is
329
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,720
essentially what keeps us
rolling.
330
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,240
And then ultimately, we create
our own legacy by building upon
331
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,120
what he started.
And one of the ways that we
332
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,000
decided to build on what he
started was to start forming
333
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,360
capital partnerships with
institutional capital.
334
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,480
The sovereign wealth funds, you
know, pension fund advisors,
335
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,600
endowment funds and groups
manage that kind of money.
336
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,920
They're all over the place.
You know, Goldman Sachs,
337
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:57,200
Invesco, Fortress, their real
estate investment trust reads,
338
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,880
public companies, private
companies.
339
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:04,120
And so we felt the only way to
get us to the next level would
340
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:09,240
be to partner up with those type
of groups on the equity side,
341
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,560
not on the debt sect.
And in 2015, that's what we did
342
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,280
and we did a joint venture with
Goldman Sachs.
343
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,160
It was after about three years
of myself and my one brother
344
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,160
going around all over the
country getting told no over and
345
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,360
over and over, just selling
ourselves, talking about who we
346
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:30,280
are, our track record and.
We were finally able to do a
347
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,760
deal with Goldman Sachs.
We got lucky, but we had no idea
348
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,520
what we were doing.
We had no idea how to structure
349
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,800
the joint venture.
There was this whole waterfall
350
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,000
schedule and a promoted interest
and a carried interest.
351
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,960
Had no idea what any of that
was, no idea what fees we could
352
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,720
charge, what a sponsor meant,
what a, what a, you know,
353
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,840
managing partner meant within
the deal.
354
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,760
And we structured it.
And from that point we ended up
355
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,040
doing to this day we've done I
think 33 joint ventures.
356
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,360
We've deployed close to a
billion dollars in limited
357
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:04,800
partner money and we've done,
you know, billions and billions
358
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,920
of dollars of real estate.
Right now our pipeline is almost
359
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,440
60 million square feet combined
totals about $9.8 billion.
360
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,120
Would have never, ever, ever
done that without the partners
361
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,800
that we have.
And we've been fortunate to have
362
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,440
really awesome partners.
And so this course is about how
363
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,200
to do that, how to structure
your real estate deal in a way
364
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,240
that is optically attractive to
an institutional partner, how to
365
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,720
structure yourself and market
yourself in a way that is
366
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,360
attractive to them.
How to handle that first phone
367
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,720
call when you get on the phone
with them, how to market the
368
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,680
deal, how to market you, what's
important in that, what markets
369
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,000
they look for.
And I talk on industrial, but I
370
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,560
also cover some things in
retail.
371
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,120
But the bottom line is it's not
specific to anyone industry.
372
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:56,120
It's more about how you talk to
talk what they look far from a
373
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,600
pro forma standpoint, What's
important to them?
374
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,320
Is it IRR, is it equity
multiple?
375
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,720
Is it yield on cost?
How do they calculate it?
376
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,960
We go through a lot of different
waterfalls.
377
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,160
We literally give all of the
waterfalls that we've ever done
378
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800
where someone could take that
waterfall structure and go apply
379
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,600
it to a deal themselves.
So, you know, I can't promise
380
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,920
that someone that takes that
course is going to like go out
381
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,200
now and raise a bunch of money
with institutional capital.
382
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,440
But I can tell you this, they'll
be extremely well equipped.
383
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,640
And the other thing I'm going to
do with that is have a monthly,
384
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,920
I might do twice a month call
with those that sign up for it
385
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,120
where we just talk shop.
We talk, you know about deals,
386
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,360
what what the institutional
groups are looking for.
387
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,680
I have some guys call in.
One is the president of a public
388
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:41,960
company that's one of our
partners.
389
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,120
And I talked directly to him of
like what he looks for.
390
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,680
And one of the questions I asked
you say, look, if you're not a
391
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,480
68 year family business, if you
haven't done this before, but
392
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,680
you got yourself an awesome
deal, what's important to you to
393
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,480
partner up with that person?
And his answer is pretty cool.
394
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,880
So anyways, I did it because
when we did it, there was
395
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,160
nothing out there.
We had to learn the hard way.
396
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,000
We've essentially taken, you
know, the 10 plus years we've
397
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,600
been doing this and put it into
a course the best I could.
398
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,480
What I always say is I had the
privilege of growing up at a
399
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,400
dinner table where all we talked
about was real estate and
400
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,800
commercial real estate has
always been a largely gate kept
401
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,920
industry.
But the Internet has given us
402
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,080
the ability to teach people who
might have not been, you know,
403
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,360
the people who are not as
privileged as I, as you or
404
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,640
myself to be at the dinner table
with these players.
405
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,880
It has just levelled the playing
field.
406
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,600
And I think overall it's just
badass that you are willing to
407
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,440
share your information, because
I feel like a lot of people
408
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,720
don't want to do that.
Yeah.
409
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,280
You know, we thought about that
and it's a good point.
410
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,640
And you know, first of all, I
think there is plenty of real
411
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,560
estate to go around, OK.
And I think that when you
412
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,240
approach, like I said at the
beginning about what you can
413
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,720
give versus what you can get, I
think it's just a, a rule of
414
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,840
life that it comes back tenfold.
And genuinely, when I tell you
415
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,640
back when we did that joint
venture, we had no idea what
416
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,360
we're doing.
And genuinely, when I tell you
417
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,000
there's nothing out there that
explains it, I really felt
418
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,640
there's a void for that.
The other aspect I really
419
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,360
thought about is it's an
opportunity to build community
420
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,480
and to connect with other real
estate professionals.
421
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,240
You know, here's the, here's the
truth there.
422
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,080
There could be a lot of these
folks out there that have great
423
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,800
real estate deals and they may
sign up for the course and learn
424
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,120
it that way.
The other thing they can do, you
425
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,680
can reach out to me and say,
hey, we need help on this real
426
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,600
estate deal, partner up with us
and let's go get some capital to
427
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,480
do it.
Because I'd say of all the
428
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,920
square feet I had mentioned, I
don't know if it's 50%, but it's
429
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,440
close to half is opportunities
that are brought to us from
430
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,320
other real estate professionals
or people that dabble in the
431
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,960
space that have like a great
piece of ground tied up, but
432
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,320
they need some assistance in
getting it finished.
433
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,560
And so we end up partnering with
them.
434
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,120
We form a joint venture
agreement and then we bring our
435
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,760
partners to the table and we all
do the deal together.
436
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,560
So it's frankly another
opportunity to find real estate
437
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,280
as well.
And if we never do and it's just
438
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,400
people take this course and
they're able to structure their
439
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,400
own JB's and have some great
relationships and I got
440
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,760
something to do with that.
I'd say that's pretty good karma
441
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,080
as well.
Love it.
442
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,560
I'm excited to see it come out
and to see how it unfolds for
443
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,520
you.
Now for the moment all the
444
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,920
listeners are waiting for what
is your commercial real estate
445
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,120
secret?
It's not my commercial real
446
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,280
estate Secret is not sexy at
all.
447
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,400
I think the secret is what I
said at the very beginning.
448
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,720
Think about what value you can
bring, not what you can get.
449
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:08,200
And that can be as easy as if
you have a deal and you're
450
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,240
looking for a partner and you
want that partner on your deal,
451
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,120
right?
Well, if you're thinking about
452
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,960
it from your lens, you're going
to send them the deal.
453
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,880
You're going to be have your
fingers crossed, hope they open
454
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,800
it, hope they read it and hope
they give you the money that
455
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,320
you're looking for.
But if you're thinking about it
456
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,280
from their lens, you're going to
research them.
457
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,840
You're going to see what type of
real estate they invest in.
458
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,680
You're going to see how much
money they like to invest, where
459
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,760
in the United States they like
to invest, how long they hold
460
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,240
the real estate.
You're going to make a real
461
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,040
effort in looking into what
their needs are.
462
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,960
So then think about if you go
from it from that vantage point
463
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,920
and then you send a deal to them
and you've broken out the deal
464
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,200
in an e-mail in like 6 easy
points that all touch on hot
465
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,640
buttons for them.
Hey, such and such.
466
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,280
I have this deal in Georgia and
I know you really like this
467
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,520
market.
I saw that you did XYZ deal here
468
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,160
and you know this is going to be
a, you know, half a million
469
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,520
square foot industrial
warehouse.
470
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,160
You know, just like the deal
that you did across the street
471
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,800
that was, you know, 250,000
square feet.
472
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,720
It's within your parameter in
terms of deal size.
473
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,920
You know, it's a value add play
in the sense that you develop it
474
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,960
and then you sell it.
So it's a short term hold
475
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,720
notice.
You like to do a lot of merchant
476
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,720
build that play versus just
sending out.
477
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,920
And I can't tell you how many
times I've gotten just a random
478
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,440
OM offering them a random or a
deal.
479
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,440
It's just an attachment and like
it this is, you know, this is
480
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,120
like a mobile park site.
Like we've never done mobile
481
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,000
parks in our life.
Mobile parks are amazing, but
482
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,160
we've never done it like so.
But if you think about the value
483
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,080
that you can bring versus what
you can get in any scenario, in
484
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,520
any scenario, your your
productivity and your success
485
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,240
will be 50 times over what it
would be if you're just thinking
486
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,920
for yourself.
Very full circle to where we
487
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,320
started.
The more you give, the more you
488
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,920
get.
It's as simple.
489
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,560
Nick, for the listeners who
might want to learn more about
490
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:26,400
your family or your product or
submit a site that's well
491
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,360
researched, where can they find
you following, etcetera.
492
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,720
That's well researched.
That's a good point.
493
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:40,360
So my social is Nick G like
George, but it stands for Gerard
494
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,040
Sansone.
SANSONE.
495
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:49,240
And then information on the
course is at nickgsansone.com.
496
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Nickgsansone.com Nick, thank you
for being on the show today.
497
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,080
I I really appreciate you making
the time to chat with us.
498
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,640
And for everybody listening,
we'll see you next week.
499
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,720
And that's a wrap for this week
on commercial real estate
500
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,720
secrets.
If you found value, do us a
501
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,600
favor and subscribe, leave a
review and share it with a
502
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,920
fellow commercial real estate
lover.
503
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,120
For brokerage services or to
connect, visit
504
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,800
warehousehotline.com.
I'm Aviva.
505
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,400
We'll see you next week.
